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 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland

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Winner and Margin?
All Blacks 13+
2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Vote_lcap100%2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Vote_rcap
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All Blacks 1-12
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Draw
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Scotland 1-12
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Scotland 13+
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Total Votes : 1
 

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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 16, 2010 11:41 pm

Pantherus wrote:
By that logic they'd never be subbing players on unless someone's injured...

Yea I’m not sure to be honest p’rus….

With 2 inside backs on the bench you're covered for 2 separate injuries to those specialist positions. So you can afford to use at least one of them as a tactical subs which is obviously what happens now.

But if Weepu is covering both 10 & 9 from the bench (to accommodate SBW and Dagg) we’re only covered for one injury which would mean the coaches become reluctant to bring him on unless absolutely necessary.

I'm all for loading up our bench with the big guns but not at the expense of leaving us exposed if a couple of people fall over. We saw how that affected us in the 07 WC when both Carter and Evans limped off.

I still wonder what we would've done if Nonu had been playing 12 that day instead of McAlister. Not that it mattered in the end anyway.


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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 1:47 am

true - but then any injury after a sub (except for front-rowers due to the special rule to allow for scrums) will cause players to be out of position. If Weepu came on, then got injured, they'd just to something like put Dagg there, or Smith, or something like that...reserves allowing.
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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 2:08 am

Dagg can kick goals too, I actually reckon he'd make a pretty decent first-five.

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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 2:41 am

Pantherus wrote:
true - but then any injury after a sub (except for front-rowers due to the special rule to allow for scrums) will cause players to be out of position. If Weepu came on, then got injured, they'd just to something like put Dagg there, or Smith, or something like that...reserves allowing.

Oh yea absolutely and that would definitely apply to midfield or outside backs where you could swap around all sorts of players

But 9 and 10 are specialist positions and harder to accomodate.

I mean, do we really want to see Conrad Smith forced to play halfback during a WC knockout match?
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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 2:46 am

it could happen regardless of subs though - Weepu starts, gets subbed off at 65 mins for cowan, then carter injured at 70 minutes

I totally hear what you're saying - but when you have such strength in depth as can use the bench as a weapon like NZ can, do you really want wasted space for a player to be there solely for injury cover?

Maybe they do and that's why they've never trusted leaving Weepu as 9 and 10 cover...
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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 3:01 am

with a bench of SBW, Weepu and Dagg you've got it all covered

SBW - Centers/Wings
Weepu - Halfback/First Five
Dagg - Fullback/Wings/First Five

You're not going to get better cover than that. Unless you bring on Slade in place of Dagg who can cover the positions Dagg can but is a much stronger first five option. But F*** that Dagg is the man!




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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 3:40 am

Pantherus wrote:


it could happen regardless of subs though - Weepu starts, gets subbed off at 65 mins for cowan, then carter injured at 70 minutesI totally hear what you're saying - but when you have such strength in depth as can use the bench as a weapon like NZ can, do you really want wasted space for a player to be there solely for injury cover?

Maybe they do and that's why they've never trusted leaving Weepu as 9 and 10 cover...

In that scenario Donald (or whoever else is the reserve 10) comes on for Carter, so we've covered the two injuries to the two specialist positions. Which we couldnt do if Weepu was the only 9/10 cover we had.

Sh*t I'd love to see our bench stacked with super subs like SBW, Dagg and Ranger. But I'd hate it more if we got caught with our pants down and ended up playing Smithy at halfback for a big match. Thats probably the rationale behind the reserve split - playing it a little conservatively, which I can understand I suppose.

The only other way to make it work is to start two play makers at 10/12, like we had when McAlister & Mauger were playing 12. And like that failed experiment of HK 08 when Donald and Carter paired up. I think that day we had Nonu and Jane on the bench.

But what chance of a playmaker type 12 supplanting Nonu or SBW from that position anytime soon? McAlister would need a Lazarus like form revival to get back in there

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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 am

Hendo Maroon wrote:
with a bench of SBW, Weepu and Dagg you've got it all covered

SBW - Centers/Wings
Weepu - Halfback/First Five
Dagg - Fullback/Wings/First Five

You're not going to get better cover than that. Unless you bring on Slade in place of Dagg who can cover the positions Dagg can but is a much stronger first five option. But F*** that Dagg is the man!


Has Dagg played 10 for the Bay at all Hendo?

I agree he's a freakish talent and it wouldnt surprise me to see him make a good go of it at some stage.
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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 4:16 am

10 and 15 have the same skill set. all depends on the mind set
larkham who was one of the greatest Fullbacks of my time before Cullen came along transitioned perfectly into 10 (cracked me up that mattBurke wasnt even the best fullback in the Aussie side) and went on to be their best in my era (imo better than lynagh)

so wouldnt take much for dagg to slot in. he'd have to learn the calls but then i reckon he's the kind of player that could handle it and grow in that position.
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PostSubject: Re: 2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland   2010 Grand Slam Tour: New Zealand V Scotland - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 17, 2010 5:24 am

Yea as far as I'm aware we haven't used him at first-five, had he not been on ABs duties we probably would have given him a run this year seen our first choice was Kirkpatrick, although Khan Fotuali'i soon fixed that.

Can think of quite a few FBs that could have easily slipped into the first-five roll, Gavin Hastings in particular.

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