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 Williams IRB Player of the Year

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pedwintheking
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PostSubject: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 6:02 am

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Pantherus
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 6:05 am

Good player - but spent all year playing soft opposition...
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pedwintheking
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 6:06 am

Pantherus wrote:
Good player - but spent all year playing soft opposition...

Agreed.......when he played NZ and SA he looked like nothing


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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 7:13 am

They just had to give it to a Northern Hemisphere player after years of it being dominated by Southern Hemisphere stars, the last one was J. Wilkinson back in '03.

The Welsh had a great year in the 6 Nations, I thought Welsh captain Ryan Jones would of been more deserving.

Good to see King Henry win Coach of the Year and of course the ABs win team of the year.
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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 7:47 am

can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc
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pedwintheking
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 7:49 am

hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc


Well he won the Tri Nations, Bledisloe (and soon the Grand Slam aswell)

All with a rebuilding team missing alot of key members from the previous year



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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:02 am

hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc

That's a ridiculous call, clearly he proved this year he is the best coach, Deans has nothing on Henry and will never. The best decision the NZRU has made in recent years is to keep Henry as captain.
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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:10 am

Tri Nations doesn't mean shit to me anymore because we are going to have to go another 4 (3 now) years without truly being able to call ourselves world champions. we have now won the tri-nations and bledisode cup so many times that it's almost a forgone conclusion that we'll win both. NZ wasn't the only team rebuilding either, australia had a massive exodise with coach, capt, asst capt and top players leaving, also south africa had their coach sacked so its not exactly like they were at the top of their game either
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pedwintheking
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:15 am

hewitsonjd wrote:
Tri Nations doesn't mean shit to me anymore because we are going to have to go another 4 (3 now) years without truly being able to call ourselves world champions. we have now won the tri-nations and bledisode cup so many times that it's almost a forgone conclusion that we'll win both. NZ wasn't the only team rebuilding either, australia had a massive exodise with coach, capt, asst capt and top players leaving, also south africa had their coach sacked so its not exactly like they were at the top of their game either

Wasn't Mortlock captain??? (not 100% sure)

And I don't think Aus + SA lost as many players as the AB's nearly half the RWC sqaud



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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:20 am

Hendo Maroon wrote:
hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc

That's a ridiculous call, clearly he proved this year he is the best coach, Deans has nothing on Henry and will never. The best decision the NZRU has made in recent years is to keep Henry as captain.
he cost us a fu.cking world cup that was in the bag until he had to try his rotational system that prevente any players from getting combinations that worked well against decent opposition. beating portugal 108-0 doesn't mean shit if we lose to a france side that was fairly ordinary and below expectations at the time. I remember the morning after and the New Zealand Herald was, as was the rest of the country, calling for henry's head and the nzru still did nothing about the problem
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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:21 am

former capt. then
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kiwikid33
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:23 am

wtf

when i read the title i thought it was Ali Williams as player of the year not some welsh winger thats a joke did steven Jones decide the awards or something. Oh wait a minute no he couldnt have as nz won team of the year and coach of the year.

Still a joke though.
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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:30 am

hewitsonjd wrote:
Hendo Maroon wrote:
hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc

That's a ridiculous call, clearly he proved this year he is the best coach, Deans has nothing on Henry and will never. The best decision the NZRU has made in recent years is to keep Henry as captain.
he cost us a fu.cking world cup that was in the bag until he had to try his rotational system that prevente any players from getting combinations that worked well against decent opposition. beating portugal 108-0 doesn't mean shit if we lose to a france side that was fairly ordinary and below expectations at the time. I remember the morning after and the New Zealand Herald was, as was the rest of the country, calling for henry's head and the nzru still did nothing about the problem

and what has Deans done?? Lead the Wallabies to an unsuccessful Trinations. Bledisloe Cup campaig, yip that is all.

You can hardly blame Henry for the WC loss, its the players that didn't step up and couldn't cope under the pressure
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Pantherus
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:36 am

hewitsonjd wrote:
Hendo Maroon wrote:
hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc

That's a ridiculous call, clearly he proved this year he is the best coach, Deans has nothing on Henry and will never. The best decision the NZRU has made in recent years is to keep Henry as captain.
he cost us a fu.cking world cup that was in the bag until he had to try his rotational system that prevente any players from getting combinations that worked well against decent opposition. beating portugal 108-0 doesn't mean shit if we lose to a france side that was fairly ordinary and below expectations at the time. I remember the morning after and the New Zealand Herald was, as was the rest of the country, calling for henry's head and the nzru still did nothing about the problem

Wow...bitter much??

I thought Henry did a great job this year, not only did he retain the bledisloe and 3N under considerably strong opposition that we've had in a few years, but he did the most integral thing that could possibly be done in his position: he learned from his past mistakes; and by doing so he acknowledged them as mistakes. He may not have said outright that this or that was a wrong call, but through his actions this year he has shown that. A run of consistent team selections, granting clemency to players who proved their worth despite some potential issues (read: Cowan, Kaino, Weepu, Nonu); played the game by adapting to the conditions; and did all this after losing a far superior swathe of top-line players to SA and Aus combined.

Think what you will, but Henry will be there in 2011.
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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 8:46 am

where did i say deans, your right, i woul prefer deans because he is young(ish) and deserves a chance but i didn't ever say deans. And the players deserve to burden som of te reponsibility but as i stated before, henry never ga them a chance to get chemistry with each other and he took them on a trip to the south of france before they did the work. And then they got bundled out at the first hurdle, how can you honestly say that a coach who has lead crusaders to super 14 domination is worse than a coach who ruined the hopes of an entie nation with a team full of the world's best players
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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 9:01 am

BECAUSE HENRY WON THE TRINATIONS AND BLEDISLOE AND DEANS DIDN'T!!!

If Deans was better he would of chosen the right team and lead the Wallabies to victory, the ABs success this year was supposed to silence Deans supporters, but still your trying to argue.

Wyllie, Mains, Hart and Mitchell all quit coaching or got cut after failing to win the WC, yet we still haven't won it since '87. Isn't this enough proof that sacking the coach after they fail to win a WC is not a good idea. Henry will have developed a solid side by 2011 and we will win the WC.
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 9:05 am

Not to mention its coach of the YEAR. The WC clearly isn't relevant.
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Pantherus
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 9:08 am

Henry can never be singularly culpable for the WC loss. As you said, these were some of the best players in the world; they all should have been able to stand up and prove that they were that good.

Henry made some coaching blunders, nobody argues that; but many (most?) of us agreed that he deserved another chance - and he has proved us right.

While many Deans supporters argues that the NZRU only rehired him because they didn't was to admit they were wrong; you can hardly argue the same for the IRB...

Finally, as for Deans - some of us remember the Mitchell/Deans era of 2003/04 - also known as the era of the "Cantablacks" (SportsLegend's favourite era I'm sure...) where virtually the entire squad of ABs were Canterbury players - the likes of Caleb Ralph, Corey Flynn and Mose Tuiali'i getting international callups...I for one never wants to see that kind of biased coaching again - and I firmly believe that Deans would have done just that.
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NBrown#16
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 9:24 am

how do we know that deans would choose canterbury players, he hasn't been iven the chance to choose the international team that he wants and now i'm not sure that he ever will. Also, how can deans be expected to take the tri-nations with a bunch of incompetant hacks that's the australian team. I think he did well with what he had to beat the best in the world in South Africa and nation that choke's when the pressure is on combined with a coach who seems hell bent on stuffing up everything of importance
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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 10:10 am

Read Pantherus above post hewitsonjd he clearly states the Mitchell/Deans era of 2003/04 - also known as the era of the "Cantablacks". that was hugely due to Deans influence, also together with Mitchell they decided to get rid of one of the greats of the professional era Christian Cullen
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Pantherus
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 10:12 am

I can see there's no reasoning with you. You have your opinion which you are adamant on, and I respect that - we'll agree to disagree.

For the record: I said
Quote :
...and I firmly believe that Deans would have done just that

You said yourself that we'll never know - but I think that that's what he would have done.

Apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread into a Deans vs Henry debate - wasn't intentional.
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Hendo Maroon
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 10:14 am

But when someone disses King Henry and says he doesn't deserve Coach of the Year, we have to argue that.
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Pantherus
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 10:15 am

Hendo Maroon wrote:
But when someone disses King Henry and says he doesn't deserve Coach of the Year, we have to argue that.

To a point - but as I said, there's obviously no reasoning with him - he's adamant on his opinion and I would wager nothing short of 2011 WC victory (if that) would change his mind.

Let's just leave it at that Smile
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mintyjo400
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 1:26 pm

hewitsonjd wrote:
Hendo Maroon wrote:
hewitsonjd wrote:
can't understand why henry is coach of the year, i'm still pissed that he retained the spot after the wc

That's a ridiculous call, clearly he proved this year he is the best coach, Deans has nothing on Henry and will never. The best decision the NZRU has made in recent years is to keep Henry as captain.
he cost us a fu.cking world cup that was in the bag until he had to try his rotational system that prevente any players from getting combinations that worked well against decent opposition. beating portugal 108-0 doesn't mean shit if we lose to a france side that was fairly ordinary and below expectations at the time. I remember the morning after and the New Zealand Herald was, as was the rest of the country, calling for henry's head and the nzru still did nothing about the problem

you cant blame henery for the loss he wasnt the one out on the feild, i think the rotation system helped us more then hindered, carter got injured remember and if evens hadnt had any game time it would have ben worse. i would say it the refs fault but i supose if it hadnt been foward it still would have been a try. it was the all blacks fault for not putting them away when they had the chance

and believe me they had the chance

this year we lost sooo many players and still won the tri nations and bledislode beeting a robbie deans coached side if that doesnt prove henery is better what does?
it was a great call to keep henery
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mintyjo400
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PostSubject: Re: Williams IRB Player of the Year   Williams IRB Player of the Year Icon_minitimeMon Nov 24, 2008 1:28 pm

in terms of williams i think he has been playing well
and he played well against the all blacks with some breaks and breaking some tackles
i think he was one of there better players
while players such as carter havent really played that well this year
so i think it was actually a good call
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